Is there someone in your life who, no matter how energised you feel, by the time you’re done engaging, you feel drained out? Or if you’re feeling low, they max out the last of your energy? When you encounter people who seem to sap your energy, you’re dealing with someone who’s a drainer (also known as an energy vampire). A combination of not recognising where your body is alerting you to discomfort around your boundaries along with dealing with somebody who is full-on and so emotionally, mentally, spiritually and even physically taxing, they Dump and Charge Up: they offload their stuff on you and then feel energised to continue.
The subject of drainers is a little dicey. On the one hand, you may recognise what’s so unhealthy about this person or the dynamic between you both. On the other, you may feel guilty for regarding them as a drainer because you may believe that you have been a drainer on occasion or confuse draining with healthy confiding and support. Acknowledging that someone’s a drainer can also be very guilt-inducing for one very particular reason: often, the biggest drainer in your life is a family member or someone who claims that it’s your duty to be their dumping ground or that if you love and care about them, you’ll have no problem with their sapping the life out of you.
It’s important to not mix up being genuinely there for someone with not having boundaries with somebody who you’re afraid to speak up with and who there might even be an element of intimidation and codependency.
Sometimes we mistake being a dustbin or charging station for being a ‘good listener’. In reality, this can be code for over-empathetic, Florence Nightingal-ing people pleaser who is afraid to appear “rude” and “selfish”.
Sometimes we’d rather play Columbo or Jessica Fletcher trying to understand what a drainer’s doing. It’s one thing to understand and then do something, but it’s another when you’re seeking further understanding because you don’t like what you already know. Note how your body feels, your thoughts, and the typical situations. Let this invaluable data be your warning signals so that you can take care of you.
Don’t own their behaviour, but take care of your end of things. I used to let family members drain me because I needed to be needed, and it let me feel ‘relevant’ and even in control. I also rendered myself helpless to improve the situation and then complained about them. But when I grew my self-esteem and boundaries, I decided I preferred to like myself and have healthier family relationships. And while it might be hard to hear, you’re not the only ‘supply’ in town. Don’t feel aggrieved; feel relieved.
Resentment will build (that’s if it hasn’t already) if you don’t take ownership of your feelings and behaviour. In these situations, on some level, we hope the drainer will appreciate us or change and then feel short-changed when they don’t. You have to take the steps on your end to protect and limit the impact of this person’s behaviour. If you wouldn’t be there in the way that you are if you didn’t think you would get the reward (or whatever you’re hoping for), stop and revise your motivations.
Don’t hold yourself hostage on calls or in situations. This has worked like a dream for me for the best part of ten years. Say how long you’ve got when they call, and stick to it. No more than 10-15 minutes. Give them a couple of minutes’ warning before you’re due to go, and no matter how much they try to plough on, be firm. Say that you have to go and say bye. It was excruciating initially, but also one of the best things I’ve ever done. It’s also a healthy way of creating boundaries without getting into a big discussion.
Only you know your time, energy, and priorities. If you’re always on tap, drainers will take liberties. Value your time and have a quick mental list of things you can use to opt out with. “I’ve just remembered that I’ve got to be at _______” or “Jeez! Is that the time? I’m gonna have to go because __________”.
Yeah, I said it. In the past, my mom’s made comments about what a “good daughter” should be doing. I don’t recall me signing anything when I came out the birth canal saying that we must have a guilt-laden relationship where she gets to dump on me! The irony is that if you fall for the obligations line, they resent you because they know that they’ve guilted you. Vicious circle!
Conversations with drainers aren’t about you providing a solution. They’re not. Drainers want you to tell them what they want to hear and/or let them listen to their own voice. Listen with boundaries. Son’t stress yourself out trying to find (or be) the solution. “I’m sorry to hear that” or “I really hope you get it sorted soon. Right, I’d better get going…” These are easy replacements for trying to break your brain. Remember that you can be empathetic and supportive. Honour your boundaries with compassion. They’re obviously going through their own stuff, but don’t project or cross your own (or their) boundaries by making yourself responsible for changing their feelings and behaviour.
Your thoughts?
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OMG-my ex hubby to a “T”. Disengaged and became sane. Spot-on description of the head-scratching, WTF, here-we-go-again, no-accountability rant of the hour. Brilliant analysis, Nat.
Great description and tips. I just recently removed myself from a new friendship with a drainer. At first I was confused because he actually would be helpful or seem to listen for a moment but as soon as he listened to me or did a small favor (not even favor so much as courtesy like do the driving when we went out). I’d turn around and be confronted with him asking 5 favors of me and expecting me to hear hours of drama. It felt like there were strings attached to everything. I figured he was just looking for an instant bestie like some seem to do, someone who’d go on every errand and endlessly listen to the same dramas over and over. He seemed maybe willing to do the same for me but I just can’t constantly unload on someone and expect them to hold my hand to get through the day. It felt really codependent and claustrophobic and I started to feel resentment. Thing is, I noticed that there were similarities in this, a dynamic that was familiar. I’ve tried to take the opportunity to rigorously examine my part and what I can do to not seem like such a great candidate for this type of friendship.
I want to listen to the post on keeping a feelings journal because listening to my feelings is what helped me navigate my way out. My mind could find reasons it was all ok but it felt wrong wrong wrong. It also helped me to try to look at his behavior/actions more objectively (like if I wasn’t involved) and was able to see more clearly how all his dramas were overblown and he had a pattern of evading responsibility (life just happens to him).
Very much had that happen to me. With a few people who would pretend in a glossing-over way that they had a modicum of interest in what was going on with me, only long enough to dive into their own stuff. When I realized what was happening and when I stopped diving into their stuff to the level they thought I should be, feeling drained at the one-way nature of our communication, both of these people got upset. One got petulant, and the other slammed me. But, as I have learned, When I stop being a people-pleaser (codependent), people are not pleased.
I have since turned that draining energy that I was losing, into myself. It feels wonderful to have positive healthy relationships where the energy goes back and forth! Great post, Natalie.
“When I stop being a people-pleaser (codependent), people are not pleased.”
Oh wow Nina N. this sums it up pretty well!
V — I can’t take credit for that great phrase, but I love it also! And have observed it too many times. I work hard not to “please” drainers. Sometimes I do get sucked in, but hopefully I am getting better about recognizing it earlier and getting out of the swamp! lol
This is my brother. The timing of this is perfect. I appreciate your tips but at this point I’m considering cutting him out of my life as I get nothing positive from the relationship. He has untreated mental health issues and does not want help — but to complain about how miserable his life is, how great mine is, yada yada — and my life is NOWHERE close to perfect — but there is not room to share anything, only the responsibility of counseling. I think I’m just done. I work as a health care professional and am everything to everyone — just wondering where MY support is. A man is not an island and I am tired of supporting everyone when no one is ever there for me!
I’m pretty sure that I’ve been a drainer over the past year. I have never felt so “needy” with friends, and I no longer have those (formerly long term) friends or a relationship with my sister because I cried my story too much. I really felt like I was self-destructing, and I’ve paid the price for not being able to let go in a socially appropriate time frame. In addition, I’ve drained my therapist, as she stated that she doesn’t feel that she is being helpful to me. (Self fulfilling prophecy?) I recognize that I am resistant and stubborn. And stuck. I have one final visit scheduled and I’m stressing about it. I have turned into this drain in the attempt to make sense of nonsense and to reconnect with and re-establish my own self. It’s like my basic need to be heard, supported, and understood was more powerful than people could deal with. So I’m swirling around my own drain right now, but that’s better than being in the sewer.
The point about having big needs and knowing it – is that you now also know who does and who does not fulfill YOUR true needs.
I’m sure you have drained people as you feel – but then you need to find people who you don’t drain or who know how to stop you BEFORE you drain them / find other ways to express and exorcise your needs elsewhere – where you won’t. In other words – it is fine to have big needs but you may be looking to the wrong people to fulfill them for you.
I think Natalie is trying to encourage people in this post to set these boundaries with people BEFORE they get drained – which is good for the drainer as well as the drainee.
One of my greatest joys was finding a person who I was confident I didn’t drain – not because she gave me everything I needed but because she is so secure in herself she knows instinctually where to draw the boundaries WITHOUT hurting or dumping me completely – and for the first time I realised – considering what I’ve been through my needs aren’t actually as big a deal as I have been persuading myself.
If you suppress your big needs in attempt to keep warn out friends and warn out therapists, guess who’ll come a cropper anyway?
You don’t want to let go.
You don’t want to accept that he is an EUM/AC.
WHY?
You’re right. Cognitive dissonance still and fear I think.
When I felt stuck in my own world of hurt I didn’t lose people in my life from complaint but from pushing them away through neglect and avoidance. If I had talked/complained I don’t doubt that would’ve been why. The only thing that got me out of stuck mode was taking care of myself physically. Somehow I had no direct access to my mental self that didn’t just add to my pile of pain and talk therapy was horribly tortuous (I tried 3 therapists). It’s hard to see where I wasn’t the person I want to be but compassion for myself has really helped, I was doing the best I could. Acupuncture and massage have made it much easier for me to form better thoughts to act on and view the past without feeling so overwhelmed by emotional pain.
There is always tomorrow for all of us.
This is so very well stated, Miss Nat. I have a few of these in my life and I have been doing exactly what the illness prescribes – recognizing their circular pattern of being stuck in story and not making it “my problem” to fix(because it never works anyway). It’s so very unfortunate that people we care about function this way. If only they could find a better way… Until then, I’ll be over here. 🙂
Yes, mine was constantly asking me what he should do but it didn’t matter what I said. I felt like he was asking for more attention rather than my opinion or advice. I even tried to gently point some things out like that it felt bad to see him texting on his phone as I was talking to him. He’d act considerate enough in the moment but then later either do the same thing again or make a passive aggressive remark. It’s so weird because he comes off as mild mannered and kind but his actions are really that of an a-hole. He’s pretty depressed and avoidant, I’m not sure he has any clue how self absorbed and jerky he, in many ways, is. I think he’d feel bad if he knew, he’s not callous or mean but I just can’t play mommy/therapist/cheerleader, like he seems to want, to anyone (again).
#Oola, and this is very important – they dont really want advice, and nothing you say will help. I think some people like this are really anxious and have stopped investing in their own lives. So they have nothing else to talk about and yes they create drama, and lose perspective, have a sense of entitlement, have a sense of injustice, think everyone else is stupid etc. I have a friend like this and we have stopped communicating as I realized i have a stomach ache every time I talk to her. I have other friends that do whine to me or tell me about their problems but the difference is 1) they dont do it all the time, 2) we actually discuss things rather than a one-sided rant, 3) they take my advice or at least take someone’s advice, and 4) they are still living their lives and have a lot else to discuss other.
They actually want to solve the problem, they dont just want to keep ranting and holding others to blame.
I had the same situation with my last relationshit. All the drama and bitching about his problems, we would discuss them and HE would come to a solution about how to fix whatever crap was on the table at the time, then turn around and do something completely different or NOTHING at all. Then wonder why I got frustrated and sick of hearing it. My circle is pretty small these days (2 close girlfriends and a few others I socialise with from time to time). Drama queens be GONE
Say Something,
it has not been easy for you- I have followed your journey in the past months but if you have friends that are drained or a therapist then that is just that- a fact. I would try not to make that ALL about myself. We all have our thresholds and I have friends that are willing to give a lot (time and an ear) and then I have friends who are a bit closed up and private in general and while they care they don’t have the emotional set-up to engage in a way that is always 100percent fulfilling for me.
I think that different relationships can “do” different things for us and it doesn’t all have to be the same. So pick wisely and know the people better who you are engaging with.
My sister and I are very close, but she is a bit of a drama queen, so sometimes I get full empathy and sometimes she is so much in her own stories, there is no place. I think it is hard to always fulfill our needs and wants with another person at the specific time, as these might not match…
Couldn’t that be it in your case too? You are so hard on yourself for requesting an inner schedule (“letting go in an socially appropriate time-frame”!!), it will be all the harder to move on when you put this type of pressure on you!
And your therapist…sometimes it is not a good fit anymore, even after a certain time! I switched at some point, because mine was so cold and I really wanted to have conversations and engagement- something a lot of therapists won’t do. I found the “mom”-type that I needed. I have conversations with her, like with the mom I never had and it was the best therapeutic thing for me.
Tread lightly, do the best you can and take breaks from analyzing, and don’t forget to have some fun and do things you like. Life is for living and not for agonizing over where we “don’t” fit in. Find people who fit for YOU!
Hugs
‘You are so hard on yourself for requesting an inner schedule (“letting go in an socially appropriate time-frame”!!), it will be all the harder to move on when you put this type of pressure on you!’
Great analogy Unfolding. It is so important to allow yourself to exist as fully as you can – otherwise…
I think my own timetable as morphed into taking over my life. By not being “done” when others wanted me too, then I was merely a drain. More like an internal cyclone now, as I mostly keep it to myself. One thing is different this week. I have gone three days in a row without crying. The only three days of this entire year. It may sound trite, but crying multiple times, by myself, every single day has also drained me. I’m not sure what’s different, so I’m worried I can’t sustain myself in the no cry zone.
I’m learning that people who have Narcissistic Personality Disorder can zero in on the perfect codependent to love bomb their way in, so they can suck them dry, push them away a bit, and finally dump their empty carcasses along the highway. There is an actual diagnosis called Narcissistic Emotional Abuse because they actually gaslight, befuddle and confuse their victims so much they develop amnesia, PTSD, foggy brain, depression and a distinct feeling they are losing their minds. Psychiatrists and psychology researchers are starting to publish more details and support groups are popping up.
I urge anyone who thinks they are or were involved with a Narcissist, Borderline, Sociopath or Antisocial type, to look into it. I know from experience a Narcissist is the most heartless, vicious assclown of them all. It can take years to recover from their treatment.
Amen.
Hi Karen, I had to reply to your post as I absolutely agree with what you said.
I met an Assclown last Feb and due to his terrible behaviour I started to research as I had never come across someone so messed up and so unfeeling in all my life. I realised that he is a Narcissist something I have never heard of before. He admitted to me he had no empathy, thought he was better than everyone else, had a need for entitlement and hated loosing control. You are so right Karen these people leave you feeling so depressed and an empty so much so I had to see a counsellor.
They don’t care what they do to the other person as long as they get what they want.
I’m now 7 weeks No Contact and the fog is starting to lift.
Yep I can verify that. Support groups where? I found alot of info on net with personal comments left – some really useful – but no daily support group which is what you need to get a grip on this quicker.
I can honestly say I know what Hell is and the devil doesn’t wear red horns and a tail but has lovely blond hair, blue eyes, a smile and a charm that could win over the most sceptical of people, unless you watched him closely over time and were very confident with your intuition/feelings especially while been shown a bombardment of opposite information during the honeymoon period.
The first psychologist I saw made no reference to Narcissim – she then retired, the second, a young person, called everyone around me a Narcissist.
The ONLY thing that stopped the problems from him – smear campaigns, intimidation etc… getting worse was:-
1) complete non contact of him AND EVERYONE connected to him – ESSENTIAL! – after he couldn’t get to me directly he used others – who didn’t know me directly or had little experience to really know me but were happy to judge me based on his say so – and did his dirty work for him – persuading them he was the victim!! He even turned up at a local place for domestic violence as a victim – while he was still actively abusing me.
2) Not giving up – Focus and re focusing and re re focusing on myself and my needs and finding ways to fulfill them under very difficult, trying circumstances – basically close communities around me desperately trying to stop me doing just that.
Good luck to anyone going through this – even though I have a handle on the situation becoming worse after three years non contact – I am still handling/ dealing with the ramifications of HIS choices and behaviour – even though I now choose to only take responsibility for myself – he destroyed my life as it was, my local reputation in two communities, nearly finished me off physically and then walked away scot free to go do it all again to some other person. Just like he did to me after others – I found out afterwards.
I found other places of true support, love and care for me, he then left the area (at that point it was clear to me – he or others could no longer get to me easily – I was out of there community completely by going to other places they would not have any connection to), one of his top faithful replacement colonel’s = my elderly next door neighbour – died naturally – and her little army of friends no longer visits and uses any opportunity to intimidate/ bully me/ verbally abuse me – and over time others will follow their own natural paths completely out of my life for good with no encouragement or manipulation from me – other than for me to walk away from them completely everytime – no matter how un-polite it may be or how it may be used against me – I have finally learned to put myself and my survival and my real needs as my top priority – eventually the others around me, will all work it out just like I did sadly – I am a nice person and I deserved better than this but this is what I have and what I am working away from now.
P.S. Natalie suggests keeping a journal–it is especially handy with these types because the amnesia that often accompanies psychic vampires makes you forget the recent fight they picked and recall how loving and perfect they used to be, so you miss them and they get another chance to screw with your mind.
1.THEY ARE NEVER WRONG.
2.THEY ALWAYS BLAME OTHERS
3.IF CAUGHT CHEATING OR IN A MAJOR LIE, THEY WILL CHANGE THE SUBJECT, DENY OR DISAPPEAR LONG ENOUGH FOR YOU TO FORGET WHAT THEY DID.
4. THEY NEVER APOLOGIZE OR MAKE AMENDS.
5. THEY HAVE BAD TEMPERS BUT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.
Bang on Karen !!
@ Say Something, that’s why I got the strong feeling that the EUM was a narc. Because you feel so drained all the time. He sucked so much out of you that feel totally out of whack. Also, sometimes you have to try out with different therapists before you find the one right for you. Look for a therapist who’s especially dealing with recovering from narcissist relationships, or have am initial consult call with a couple of them to see who can be a good fit for you.
Being a responsible adult is way better than being a child. As a child and well into my 20s, I was the dutiful daughter, trying to fix all the family’s problems and fall-outs and getting a deep sinking feeling whenever I returned to my home town. I walk around the streets and see all these places I’ve been sad and lost, it’s how I used to feel all the time.
It only takes a stress-related health problem or two to realise we have finite energy. Last time I went back to my hometown, I heavily limited this time with family, meaning I had a surprisingly good time and didn’t get knocked off-centre like always used to happen. Every day, I wonder if I’m being selfish or ungrateful but it’s nothing compared to what I used to feel. I’ve broken a cycle of drains and if I followed my upbringing, I’d be one too.
happy b, I am with you about everything you say about the adult/child positions. I feel like that too, and couldn’t say it better than you have done in your last posts. It is still amazing to me the fact that I can be happy for extended amounts of time, and I realise more and more how utterly and constantly depressed I have been as a child (and young adult). Best, V.
V., nice to hear from you and that’s what I love about here, to know that others feel the same. It’s topsy-turvy for adulthood to feel lighter and freer than early life, and to feel lost and uncomfortable at ‘home’. It’s something usually taken for granted and feels like a downer when I explain to friends that things don’t work like that for me, but it’s cause for celebration to be where we are and not to let the past control us.
Great post Natalie! I’m so grateful to you for making your insights available, as they’ve made a huge difference to my life and continue to do so.
Have you come across the drama triangle before? This is a useful tool for defusing or even avoiding falling into the role of being drained..the drainer is the ‘child’ and the listener can either fall into the role of ‘parent’ (ie take responsibility for the child, make suggestions, become involved), or ‘adult’ (ie listens but doesn’t take responsibility or become overinvolved).
In addition to your practical suggestions, to stay in adult role keep asking the drainer “ok, so what are you going to do about that?”. This stops the listener trying to solve the problems, and also can push a potential drainer into adult role themselves, which leads to a much more constructive conversation. With stubborn drainers, if they have no idea what to do to help themselves and you don’t step in with solutions, it will also often bring the conversation to a natural end.
Haha, I love that !
@bloom. Great suggestion. The right amount of detachment really. Thanks, V.
Yes – reflective listening – ask them open questions about what they can do?
I had an experience with someone like this one, constantly texting, constantly wanting to get in touch with me, acting all gooey. and I have to admit I liked all this attention at first. Having a low esteem myself, I was flattered and did not see the red flags on this one. It was just as time passed on that I could see that this guy was great at faking, even future-faking. He claimed to be this one of a kind, honest, helpful, good guy etc etc, but could not lift a finger to help himself. Such a drainer ! He wanted all of my efforts and attention in one direction, on himself alone. Whenever I disagreed, he made me feel as though I was a horrible person constantly criticizing someone who was ohh so kind and generous. [Red flag: I was not liking myself the more I was spending time with him].
It’s only later I realized he also displayed signs of a narc, the milder version. Because it took me some time to heal and get over being cheated on with so much emotional dishonesty. So many of the things he told about himself were later on exposed as total lies. Imagine it took me 3 months before I could see the red flags. Ironically, when I looked up online quizzes/websites of is he a good boyfriend material (as I typically do), he scored really high. Just goes to show how one-dimensional most of them are. 80% of those questions relate to, does he act gooey? does he like spend time with you? As a teenager, maybe these things feel good but as you grow up into an adult, you do want to have someone who is responsible, trustworthy and truly genuinely cares for your personal growth.
So yes, it made me aware of my own flaws (not a pretty picture). Although I had that icky feeling in my gut, it took me a lot of courage to give myself permission to break up with him. Made me realize how disrespectfully I was treating myself that instead of celebrating my own worth, I was letting some random guy acting gooey made me question my core values.
Just wanted to share a link. To me, it explains how water seeks its own level. Like they say “When in doubt, love yourself.”
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2015/02/insecure-men-dating.html
One of your best posts yet, from my point of view. Literally the story of my life. When I finally had a break-down because I was completely exhausted, the worst of these people kept taking and others ‘gave up’ because my ‘case’ was too difficult. Thank God for that one friend who stood by me. Best wishes Natalie, V.
Happy B and V…
I feel you completely!
A few of my family members drain me. In fact all do except my mum and one sister (and I have a large family )
My family has a turbulent dynamic and I think as the youngest I have kind of been looked to as the saviour. The peace keeper, the harmless “baby ”
Except I grew up and learnt to deal with myself, my feelings and emotions effectively after a relationship with an abusive man (still learning)
Only many around me seem to expect me to deal with their lives for them?!
It’s got to the point where I actively and swiftly disengage when targeted (Yes that’s what I call it) by one of these family members. As Nat alludes to, they don’t really want to hear solutions.
Sometimes it’s incredibly hard to deal with, as I have been back in the family house for a few months. ( before a big move in a couple days). I end up hiding out in my room just for the peace!
You can imagine how this set me up with friendships outside of my family!
One friend in particular I struggle with immensely. Once I started to define my boudaries a few years ago I lost the friends who were bad for me pretty quick.
I have always felt alot of distrust for this one woman, but as someone mentioned in the comments above I almost feel like I have it in my power to stop this behaviour BEFORE it drains me completely and I end up booting her out of my life.
I have started to change my behaviour as Nat suggests. I see her rarely. I see her mostly only with at least one other person. (So she cannot completely dominate )
I rarely answer the phone to her and I have learnt to say no to her face.
She is a boundary pusher though (I might have mentioned her in other posts ) so I am learning not even to just set boundaries but to basically adapt and adjust my concept of friendship just so I can feel safe.
There is a difference between being there for each other genuinely and having all your resources sucked out of you. Therefore now I give her NO resources. It’s all surface level. I empathise and move it along quickly.
The sad thing is I don’t even think she notices! It seems to actually be all she wants! A place to open her mouth and let everything fall out. It’s like I’m just that place? !
I used to reprimand her for her self centred ways (including her lateness ) to help her become a more balanced person. (As she often said she wanted to be)
Then it got to the point where I felt like she looked forward to those conversations! She wanted that time with me to drain me further!
Oh lord! Rant over!
I’m learning so much everyday ????
@Boo. Exactly as you say, this dynamic with your ‘friend’. I usually divide these people into a couple of categories for a quick reminder of who I am dealing with: the ones who get angry when I say “enough”, and the ones who don’t even hear it, as your friend appears to be. In this case, what has kept me in the ‘friendship’ in my case, is that I couldn’t face the fact that this person whom I cared about and on whom I had invested so much of myself, wouldn’t even blink if I disappeared from her life. Because that was the only thing to do, since she didn’t understand a stop or rejection signal from my part. That was painful, to admit that I really meant nothing to her, she just got on with her life unscathed by the end of whatever it was between us.
I should also mention that I have a similar relationship pattern with my mother, that is the reason it hurt so much when the story repeated itself with my friend. Basically my mother didn’t want me as a child and in all probability tried to abort me – well, it shows to this day in the way she relates to me. Best, V.
Boo, V., just saw this. I have seen that the dynamics of friendships can change massively, and flip over, unlike family relationships. They change as our lives and circumstances change, but also as we grow. Some are revealed to be bogus once we get a better hold of boundaries and don’t last.
V., I see you’ve had the similar issue to me, the theme of nobody caring, the way we get that from our parents and then find it happens again in our relationships and friendships. I had the first problem of not having that foundation of caring to carry me through life, so it left an emptiness, and other people held that promise to fill it, so I needed more than the other person. Then I gravitated towards people who felt familiar, so they might be similar uncaring types, leaving me even more lonely. I see caring as the active part of love – I have a father who loves me, but doesn’t actively care, and both are evident in his actions and words.
When I recognised, grieved for and then accepted this imbalance over the period of a few years, this along with resolving boundary issues has made me feel and be cared for (by friends, other family and colleagues) like I never had been in the past.
@happy b. I hear you. I know that after grieving it is possible to feel cared for, by the right people, because I have experienced that myself a few times in my luminous moments. I am still grieving though. Even only mentioning the abortion here has brought about another wave of pain. It’s long…
Thank you for your answer, it feels wonderful to be understood so completely without even really making the effort to explain myself. Best, V.
Yes Happy b – nobody caring
and those that ‘love me’ but don’t actively care
and those that just care, love and respect me (and themselves)
– very important distinctions to recognise but the best tools once you see them – in order to see what is really happening in seemingly ambiguous situations where you aren’t feeling good for what ever reason.
Hopefully this can help us all rebuild damaged/destroyed trust in ourselves AND in new people around us?
I don’t know about you but I feel amazed I managed to go so long in this world – in complete denial – without fully realising what was really going on and that it wasn’t actually my fault in the beginning – I had been let down from a child onwards as well and then also actively headed straight towards the familiar for a few repeat rounds with the same non actively caring people myself – who I repeatedly allowed to behave this way for long periods of time, while I increased my loving, caring behaviour towards them, in a deluded belief that my love would make them see what they were doing – eventually – and they would stop and change! – well it never did, never will and now I won’t do it anymore – I stopped and changed instead – the bits that weren’t helping.
Fundamental – if you don’t love yourself – you won’t put loving people around you. When you learn to start to love yourself – however you do that – you learn to start to put loving caring people around you – like a mirror. I have found actively caring for myself to be the most revolutionary tool in my life so far.
Good luck Happy b & V. I hear where you are both coming from also and enjoy and relate to your contributions on here. Thank you.
V. – I guess grief is something to live with, rather than lose. The problem is when it consumes us. Before BR, if friends asked me what it was like to have my parents, I would shrug that I don’t know what I’m missing, I don’t know any different. The grief sets in when you realise just how profoundly it’s affected everything. Maybe I don’t know what it would look like to have parents engaged in my personal life and emotional wellbeing. But a BR journey shows exactly what that means, and I think there will always be waves of grief. But to have an ‘after’ grieving, like you’ve had, brings us to a place of accepting the loss and injustice, focusing more on what we have, who we are and what we’ve achieved, and filling the void with our own love instead of looking to others to do it. Whatever your mother wanted, you are here, and the people in your life should be very impressed with you and inspired when your story comes out.
Oona – I completely understand your amazement at old patterns, the delusion and irrational ways of looking at relationships, as though offering more love and more of yourself will get more appreciation in return. That’s a losing battle. It’s so true, the surefire way to being loved, cared for and appreciated is to love and care for yourself. It makes contact with others so much more authentic and honest. I think it’s a wonderful thing to change ways of thinking and patterns so much, some never do. It’s easier take the route of bitterness and self-destruction.
Your comments also bring out that those who don’t care for us don’t care for themselves. Maybe that’s why it’s so heartbreaking and complicated to have family like this, and never to know how much to excuse their behaviour and feel bad for them, or allow the anger to overtake.
I love the phrase ‘revolutionary tool’, it really is a revolution!
Thank you for this thread, ladies. It’s helping me work through the dynamics of the relationships with my daughter. I haven’t wanted to face that she doesn’t love me, respect me, and care for me. She exploits me and my kindness and love. It’s not really love.
As she said when I told her recently I feel like she treats me like an old pair of socks – yeah, but they are my favorite, most comfortable socks, and every once in a while, I like to take them out and show them off.
My ex was a drainer. He would ask for my advice and ignore me. He would make promises he didn’t keep. He never listened and never remembered things ( a huge and chronic problem), making me the “reminder” when things couldn’t be ignored, he would do things for me but they were never what I really wanted or asked for…and so on. It had a huge emotional effect on me….made me uncertain, confused, bewildered and often flustered. I am rebuilding my personhood. And part of that is seeing that I have ignored certain things in a few friendships…not draining exactly but not caring or showing appreciation for me, my time, effort and friendship. It is hard to let these “friends” go but I can see that the patterns are the same as with my ex and it isn’t good for me to be in those relationships anymore. But it IS true…when you stop being a people pleaser, people aren’t pleased. And it has triggered the scary feelings I felt when I stood up to my ex and was gaslighted or put down, or silenced.
Ditto on the remarkable timing of this post. Just two days ago I had that “Oh no, not him” feeling when I saw an email from my Dad. I never feel happiness when he contacts me. He always needs help with something..and my mental and emotional gas tank is almost on E. I got my own real issues…and I was just NOT happy to see another “help me” email from Dad.
He knows I am job-hunting …so he no longer asks for money. Now it’s “What’s my phone plan?”, “Why is my computer doing this?” Nothing urgent.
So, after being unsettled by his contact and not sure why, the next day it hit me to just send an “I don’t know, Dad.” And just leave it at that.
Now I understand what my issue is – I am drained by his contact.
I remember things now…I was his emotional air bag during my parents divorce. I’d be on the phone for hours listening to his pain, how sad he was, how he should just “end it all”. I of course would be persuading him to hang in there it will get better. After hours and hours of these calls, one night I was so tired of his I-should-just-end-it-all diatribe that I snapped and said “Dad, well, maybe you need to do what you think is best.”
That was over 30 years ago. See…he is still here. It is just about dumping on me and charging up.
This description fits my mother perfectly. She is exhausting to talk to or be around. She is the type to always start a conversation asking about myself or how my day is going but I know she only asks those questions so that she can get to what she would like to talk about, herself. I’ve learned to set boundaries with her because my mental status depends on it. I’ve also learned to not feel guilty for not answering her calls or texts like I use to. I use to be her emotional crutch and it feels good to free myself from that dependency although it is something that I constantly have to keep working on because she always try’s to suck me back in with compliments or bribes, but I’m not that young little girl anymore who doesn’t know better. I think it’s awful that I have to even think about my mother this way but I know it is the only way to keep my boundaries in check with her for the present and future.
I love your posts Natalie they always hit home with me. Xoxo
@Emily, yep, I feel you on the mother thing – my mother is probably a clinical narcissist, though she’s never been diagnosed. I’m about to have a serious operation in a couple of weeks – I could potentially lose my eye. She doesn’t ask about it. Instead, she got it into her head she needs a smartphone (I buy her flip phones because she calls one person – me – and she doesn’t use the internet or text and she can’t figure out how to press numbers on a screen) but she must have seen someone use a smartphone because now she is convinced she needs one. So she calls me about that but hasn’t once asked about my operation. She’s the type of person who, when I visit her, I have to take off all jewelry because she will look at a ring or bracelet and say “oh I like that… where did you get it?” and then she will look at it suspiciously for a few seconds and then say “Isn’t that mine?!” Never mind that I bought it in India or whatever… I’m much better about hanging up the phone and ignoring her now.
Diane, she really does sound like a narcissist! That telling comment about your jewelry, “Is it mine?” is so indicative…. narcs think everything is “theirs.” (except their responsibility for their vampire behavior; that’s yours, and mine, lol).
I’m so sorry she feel nothing about your upcoming eye surgery. You have plenty of supporters here, though — let us know how it goes.
And she can put on her big girl panties and buy her own damn smartphone and have someone else teach her how to use it. Don’t get sucked into that. Won’t make her any smarter, though.
I work in computer tech and I am sympathetic towards older people who struggle to grasp the fast changing technology that is being thrown at them. I do not think they are stupid or should be forgotten and passed over if they can’t keep up. Every “new” technology is not necessarily a must have.
I gave my Dad a flip phone, too.
But when our parents act like we are totally responsible for helping them understand everything, it becomes draining. My Dad may be old, but he is also intelligent, and I think some of his “helplessness” is an act. He was able to grasp enough of the computer technology to figure out how to see what the lottery numbers are. I think he is capable of doing a search to figure out his phone plan.
Elgie — you are so right! O ferreven’s sakes… I’m 70 and have no prob with technology. I DO have a prob with geezer-attitudes of handwringing and “I can’t dooooooo this..you gotta do it for meeeeee….” whining. And if I can’t figure something out, I ask a friend or …. gasp …. call Apple. Big deal. We are capable of using our own technology, unless we get into whine mode! 😉
Diane that is SO familiar. My mother has a way of making it sound like one word “isthatnewwhere’dyougetthat?” Then she seeks to one-up me and buy something similar – always “better” and always at a “better price”. Or she appropriates an idea of mine and says it was hers. I wear neck scarves and once, in Mom’s presence, a woman asked me how I tied it…I showed her how…then at a later date my Mom says to her friends that “People are always asking us how to tie a scarf!”.
I feel you on the mother’s disinterest in your health. My Mom can talk so dramatically to me about any test or procedure or pain she has, but when I texted her that I had shingles, she texted back “Bummer.” She never spoke to me about it again.
Listen, I know you are scared. Just keep taking care of yourself and don’t look for sympathy or empathy from those who’ve never given it in the past. If it does not interfere with anything else you are taking, try supplementing your diet with lutein – 6mg with zeaxanthin – it’s just for general eye health. Get some rest – 7 hours a night. Eye surgery is scary but doctors are accomplishing tremendous things, safely. I know someone who had eye surgery, with threat of losing sight, and everything turned out well – that was two years ago and she has her full sight with no complications.
Good luck with your op Diane – let us know how it goes and if we can help on here – before or after.
Diane,
Best wishes for the upcoming surgery. I hope you have some local support. I’m sorry your mom can’t be there for you. It’s so painful to have parents that just can’t seem to care about anyone but themselves.
She wants to be rescued by her child?
Funny how many parents do this.
Heather,
A drainer with mental health issues is a whole other issue. My deceased sister (she died of an overdose) had borderline personality disorder. We didn’t have a name for it until much later. She drained everyone in an attempt to get relief and deal with the complexities of her disease. All of her family tried everything to help. I had to tell her to stop calling and bashing the family. I avoided her calls and the last years we didn’t talk much. It was the hardest thing I’ ve ever done ( other than be in relationship with a verbal abuser). She was the sibling I was closest with, and I deeply miss her. I didn’t have the opportunity to speak with her before she died or comfort her in her pain. But we had to set those boundaries for our own sanity, as we couldn’t help her by being drained. It took me going through an abusive relationship in which I did not set boundaries early on when I should have, as well as the experience with my sister, to get to the point I am at now, to take care of myself and not be codependent and drained (dangers of being an empath). I am grateful to her and my ex for coming into my life to help me learn this big lesson I needed to learn to be the best me possible.
Christine, I was also very close to my sister, who is a sad, sad narcissist …. petulant when not attention is paid to her, goes silent and pouts, the whole 4-year old thing. I finally ripped her a new one and told her to grow up, about 6 years ago. She was NOT pleased. But that is not my business how she feels.
I doubt I’ll ever be able to comfort her or help her as she suffers from paranoia as well as diva personality (she’s a big fish in a very little pond in her artsy world, and thinks people are jealous of her … that they don’t know that she’s “famous,” etc.; sad). She will most likely die feeling not sufficiently acknowledged by her minions, of whom I am not one. I feel immensely sorry for her, and very fortunate to have escaped her toxicity, gaslighting, petulant whining, and lies.
Blood ain’t thicker than water. Without honesty and integrity, everything else, including the fact that we came out of the same birth canal (ick; narcissistic abusive mother), is just lipstick on a pig.
Your boundaries sound healthy. I’m working on the same, for myself.
@Emily. Hm…, I have just written something similar about my mother in my response above to Boo. Yes it is awful, and immensely sad. Hopefully this mourning period about it will come to an end eventually. V.
@Dianne I wish you all the best with your surgery! My mother is the type to make a big deal out of her children’s ailments to get attention so if I were to have a surgery she would tell everyone just so she could get attention and have something to discuss with others. My mother is also funny in the way that she notices everything new that I own or anything she likes that I wear or have although she claims that she is blind (she also makes up ailments to get attention)
@V This is a strange position for those of us whose mothers are narcissistic. It seems so unnatural to me that mothers could treat their children with such coldness. I ache in joy for the day that I become a mother which probably has something to do with a need to right the wrongs of the past and the fact that I can’t imagine ever putting myself before my children. I am in my mid 20’s and I accept my mother for who she is but sometimes I get sad thinking about the future because I know that she will never be able to actually be there for me and not be envious of me. My parents divorced when I was younger and my mother still can’t get along with my father (she ruined my brothers wedding by telling my whole fathers side to leave for no reason, my brother is also the golden child and participated in kicking them out). I get so upset when I think about the future and how my mother will never be able to act appropriately. Hopefully over time she will realize that she can not push my boundaries anymore. I am so lucky to have had the father that I have. He always stands up for what is right and he has done such a good job being such a nurturing, understanding father and I am sure I would not be who I am or as strong as I am if I didn’t have him(my mother has always been envious of our relationship). I could go on and on..
Best, Emily
@Diane sorry for spelling your name wrong in previous post!
@Diane. I join the others in giving you very best wishes for your surgery.
@Emily. Thank you for your answer, I find that I am grateful to my father too for the love he showed me, even though it was not such a wonderful relationship as the one you describe with yours. Best, V.
Karen
I love your points about drainers. That they are never wrong, and never apologize. I was married for 35+ years to one and I don’t remember him ever expressing regret, empathy or apologizing for anything. I am very responsive to heartfelt feelings of regret and I couldn’t understand why it never happened. It took me a long time to figure this out because I always blamed myself if a relationship wasn’t working – which was part of the plan. But a few years ago I watched my ex cycle through all the things he did when he did something which we had discussed and he agreed was inappropriate and would stop but then did it again – twice. First he tried to cajol me, then he blamed me, then he threatened me, then he guilted me out and finally he exploded and I told me I was to blame for his problems. IF you have the strength to observe this…it was a huge turning point for me. And never once in there was…I am so sorry, I am going to fix it and it will never happen again. Of course the apology would have been meaningless anyway.
What I find is that it is still hard to assert myself in the last few draining relationships that I seem to have.
I just had my brother go mental at me.
He came into my room and ranted at me. (He was angry about something else that had happened to him today and had “drained” the whole house about it.
Because I did not want to engage with him about it – he turned on me.
He came into my room and i asked him to leave repeatedly but he wouldn’t, I then went to leave and he held the door shut and blocked my way out.
Panic began to rise in me and I lost it. I just knew that I had to get out . I was scared and went into fight or flight mode.
I started screaming at him to get out – he took no notice and continued to bait me.
Thankfully my screams alerted my sister who forced her way in to stand between us.
He still would not leave but continued to come at ms with agressive nonsense.
I started swearing ro get him away and he continued until I starting hitting him and barges my way past him to run downstairs.
(I don’t condone hitting anyone but it felt like self defense -I had to get away )
I’ve been in shock pretty much the who rest of the evening.
Too scared to go back to my room and hiding out downstairs .
He has been going through an extended bad time in his life and seems to take out his anger against women in me in particular.
I mentioned in previous posts Joe much he talks down to me and I try an avoid him as much as possible.
I don’t know what to do:(
I’m moving in a few days and I might try and stay with friends or other family until I do but it’s not that convenient so probs have to suck it up and avoid him in the same house .
I’m pretty devastated. I have never lost it like that. I felt caged in and my reaction went back into primal animal instinct to protect myself from what I perceived as a real physical threat.
I’m finding it so hard right now with with my family . Overwhelmingly sad more than anything at the dysfunction 🙁
Boo, heart goes out to you.
Next time call the cops on him, do not think twice, just do it although you may be able to still call the cops on him after the incident. He has wronged you on so many levels, a bully for sure (family or not) as he couldn’t stand up to the situation that wronged him/extended bad luck so easy target, you. And that is total BS and totally on him. Plus what you did to protect yourself I would have done exactly the same (and called the cops).
The inconvenience of staying with friends/other family will give you peace of mind and importantly security in the meanwhile until you leave. Seriously consider the early move out as sucking it up/avoidance is only going to cause more distress for yourself (and another chance for the brother to go ape). I am totally irked about your as you say truly sad situation and I’m willing to send you money to stay in a hotel for a few days.
Do not be afraid to call the cops.
Take best care of yourself first and foremost as Natalie constantly teaches here on BR.
Boo,
please take good care! It does not sound good or healthy where you are. Stay with friends or other family if you can. Don’t tell him. He sounds unstable and immature and may I ask what age?
It is not ideal but there are places just for women in emergency situations where you can stay. Can you get your own place or room with trusted people?
Be safe.
Christine,
I’m very sorry for your loss. I’ve been in a similar situation with my brother. I’m a registered nurse and have some experience with caring for mentally ill patients — I believe my brother is bipolar, possible scitzoaffective disorder, and on the autism spectrum. He had been followed by a psychiatrist as a young adult but denies any problems now and is an alcoholic.
It’s so painful but I’ve tried to help him and listened to him for years, the past three being the most difficult with him telling me he wants to commit suicide and lately, being emotionally abusive to me while drunk. It’s a completely one-sided relationship — he cares very little about me, my life, my kids and wants to just dump on me as his personal counselor. Although I have mental health experience, I’m not a clinician and feel used and lately, angry, as he refuses to seek help but text me while in a mania or drunk. I’d be there 100% for him if he would get some psychiatric help but he won’t and I am tired of him texting me manic messages while at work, at night — and then being hurtful to me while drunk. My mom passed away when we were teens and my dad doesn’t seem to see that there is any real problem. He’s remarried and doesn’t want to hear anything except a fake happy story from us. No support for either my brother or me, leaving me to be the sole support for my brother. I worry so much re my brother but I see until he decides he wants to get help there is nothing I can do. I have struggled myself but have gotten help. It’s a huge drain and I’m very close to my limit.
Thank you for sharing your story — helps to know someone “gets it”. How are you doing now? I hope you’re doing ok Christine.
@Heather. I don’t understand this, if your help isn’t helping him and at the same time is hurting you, why keep doing it? Just stop. Say “I’m sorry I’m not able to deal with this anymore” and end the communication. It will have to be repeated a few times until he gets it that is true, as it is.
And who knows maybe he’ll find other ways once he’s forced to really face his issues.
One more thing: looks like there’s still a bit of co-dependency issue there, for you. I suggest you deal with your need to save him or whatever it is, because if he really does commit suicide and you haven’t yet understood your position in this story, that will be cause for non-ending guilt. V.
@ Bloom — priceless suggestion. Thank you! I will definitely use it.
By the way, my exH and the last man I “loved” are narcissists, probably my deceased mother and my father also. My exH being a total gaslighter — made me question my sanity. He lies so much his lies become his truth.
Thank you Unfolding and Gina,
I would have called the police for sure if I was alone in the house but other family members were here who helped keep him away from me.
Organised to stay with a friend tonight and hopefully another sister tomorrow before I move out officially on Sat.
He’s 46 (I’m 30)
Wow I just feel bit shocked but glad I stood up for myself the only way I could.
It reminded me of when my abusive ex used to have rages and I would be so scared I would run to the corner of a room, crouch down and put my arms up to shield myself.
This time I stood up to the bully and got away.
Life does not stop throwing up situations to deal with.
I’m so tired today just going to focus on replenishing myself after last night and talk to trusted friends bout what happened
Perfect post and as usual perfect timing. I feel completely and utterly drained from my life sucking vampire narcissistic borderline assoholic “friend” .
He is so incredibly ungrateful for my friendship and is so incredibly verbally abusive. However if I’ve learned anything in life it’s my own fault. What kind of person tolerates this disgusting behaviour for SEVEN years??
I know better. I know better to stay away. I know I should have just unplugged.
I tell my children and friends and even myself that no one can be responsible for our happiness except for us. Yet loneliness can make us vulnerable and therefore become florence nightingales to these soul sucking vampires.
I pray for strength to delete and flush and STAY no contact. As my counselor says – ” When people show you who they are – believe it ” & ” Their behaviour is a reflection of their character not mine”.
I am blessed with three magnificent children, a few fabulous friends, awesome co-workers and my health. That should and will be enough.
Forgive yourself Pheonix – we can all be conned for a long while – including seriously intelligent people. You have come to an amazing understanding now don’t take full responsibility for it. Just exorcise your side of the non relationship and stay away – like he should have until he sorted himself out. It is the kindest and most caring thing in the end – for all concerned.
@Boo. I might be missing something here, but… call the cops? I don’t know… it seems too much to me. We’re talking about verbal assault, from your brother, at your parents’ house, where you’re staying temporarily, right? No precedent of physical assault, right?
From how you describe it, it looks like you’re trapped in your marital home with an abusive husband and desperately need a way out.
I don’t know if you’re assessing the situation correctly, looks to me like you’re talking from a panicked place, and I think it’s good that you went for the most obvious solution – move out – and have time to replenish and reflect. Best, V.
Hi V,
I’m definitely panicked and taking some time to reflect on what happened.
It was terrifying being trapped in a room with a man who for a few years now has taken out all his frustrations and anger towards women on me.
There is an underlying history of resentment of me from him. He hates that I am more “successful” than him and my level of education etc.
He talks down to me with venom and days before I move he decides to “put me in my place”
I would most certainly have called the police if i had been on my own as he had obviously lost control and at that moment was capable of anything. I was terrified.
Just because he is my brother and not my husband does not make it any less (domestic) abuse.
Also I came to understand with my ex that verbal abuse often comes with an unspoken threat of physical abuse. Someone can be threatening without actually hitting you physically and can make you feel like you will be hit.
Sorry if this seems harsh or unnecessarily hard.
I think as women we are too quick to downplay our feelings sometimes about what is unacceptable behaviour and what is not.
In my opinion what he did was verging on unforgivable. If he was not my brother I would never speak to him again. If he was a friend that friendship would be done.
I vowed to never let someone treat me badly again after my ex and that goes for family too.
Yes I’m all over the place right now. It brought back so many bad memories for me. I geuniely feel uncomfortable om my own home. His indimitation has been getting progressively worse and is not exclusively aimed at me. I just happen to stand up to him which incensed him.
@Boo. You’re defending yourself but there is no need really. I didn’t mean the majority of the things you’re arguing back about. I believe you, I know your fear deserves to be taken seriously.
I did however mean to say that it looks like the fight with your brother did bring to fore some previously undigested trauma, like the one with your abusive ex. I just wanted to advise you to sort out the pieces before, then act harsh if necessary. Like what hurt and fear is due to your brother’s behaviour in the present, what is due to what your brother did to you in the past, what belongs to your ex, what is responsability of the rest of your family. Also, I’m afraid involving the police might add fuel to the fire and resolve nothing.
All of this after you’re safe of course – but you are safe already, even in the panick you managed to get out of the situation and land somewhere good. Best, V.
(@Boo) Hm, a couple of mistakes there… panic… responsibility…
Never mind I take advantage of the opportunity to say something else: it helps tremendously if you are able to put a label on the fear. It makes it tangible and finite and helps when talking about it with other people too, like if you had to describe the situation to the police.
So for instance, what does “he was capable of anything” in your post above mean? Would he be capable of pushing you down the stairs/ break your jaw/ kill you? What is your worst fear there? Be specific (with yourself), you’ll be surprised to see that once you confine it it loses a bit of its power. V.
Brilliant, as per usual, Miss Nat.
Question for you, though (as well as the other lovely ladies and gents on here): What do you do when a close friend is a drainer and she is legitimately going through a rough patch in life (such as grieving the untimely death of her mother) and she genuinely needs extra care and attention? It’s hard when you want to be there for someone you love, but their neediness in everyday life is at def-con five, let alone when they have a real tragedy occur, and so it’s hard to gather the energy to be there for them. I don’t mean to sound insensitive, but this is a genuine conundrum that I’d love some feedback on. Thanks. 🙂
@Revolution. If you don’t mind I’ll answer this. Just put a time-limit, as Natalie says. Say to yourself, or put it down in writing, “I’m going to give to X one hour of my day, from 2.30 pm to 3.30 pm, for 3 months starting from now” or similar. What is actually overwhelming in these cases is the infinity or enormity of the task when you imagine it stretching ahead in your future. If you define it, in time or space or both, and therefore you see it ending at some point, it becomes a sort of a volunteering job for a while. Middle-ground solution. Best, V.
I agree with V. Extending yourself for a limited amount of time when someone is in need is doable. I think you’ll find you have energy for that and you’ll never regret it. Allowing yourself to suffer a little in solidarity for a friend’s suffering is a great act of love. I’ll never forget when my mother was dying in Iowa, a good friend in England called me every single day for a month, no matter how busy she was, and talked with me as long as I needed it. And I know it took effort and sacrifice on her part to be there for me in that way. I only hope I can ‘pass it on’ someday and be there for someone else like she was for me.
V and Wiser (nice to “see” you again!) 🙂
Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses. I think you’re both right, and the nuances of both of your comments really illustrate how difficult it is to differentiate/deal with/help a “drainer” whom you love and who has other good qualities.I appreciate your thoughts so much; they were most helpful.
Love,
Revs
Thanks V,
I didn’t mean to bite your head off.
I’m still feeling very emotional about it.
It’s been a hard couple of days what with moving and sleeping in different houses etc.
The thing is I’m still trying to make sense of it.i understand that it brought up serious trauma in me regarding the ex. Made me think I could probably do with working through that with a therapist.
I am also very aware of male aggression.
My first childhood memory is of my mum and dad having a huge violent fight. I don’t cope well with angry dominant men. But should anyone cope with that?
As I get older I am more aware than ever of how men react to me. My level of success and my boundaries. I often have to play myself down to not upset a man’s ego. But this is not all men. I just want to be around people I feel good with?
I was scared that he was capable of beating me up and rendering me unconcious. I guess that is my biggest fear. Being killed or severely injured.
Sounds dramatic but that fear is real.
It’s quite a lovely feeling that I have at the moment. No one truly knows what I went through with my ex. I’ve never really told anyone.
I don’t think my bro thought in a million years that what he did would have caused the reaction it did in me. But that’s the thing. You don’t know what people are carrying within them.
I didn’t know until I experienced such a terrifying feeling in response to his agression
I’m a great believer in things happening for a reason.
The incident with my bro triggered dormant fear and pain in me from my childhood and my ex.
The fear I felt was probably compounded by the past fear that I did not deal with.
But really it was the anger that was more interesting for me.
I just felt intense anger that he felt he could treat me like that and get away with it.
I let my ex get away with it and do maybe I just didn’t want the bro to get away with it for that reason.
Anyway I will have time to sort through these feelings and I need to seperate a bit from my family anyway. That is also clear.
I will sort things out in my own time and I will allow him to do the same.
I don’t know how this will pan out but I know to take it easy on myself.
I feel so raw and sad though and the main thing is I just need to leave and bs on my own for a bit
Bx
@Boo. Sure. I think you’re doing great even though it might not seem so to you now. It’s just a couple of days after, it’s normal to feel so raw. And generally speaking it’s healthy too, it means that you have started processing old wounds. There is a point when feeling overwhelmed by emotions is actually positive: it’s when you transition from being numb or used to abuse to taking charge of your life. Just keep going on the path you’re already on. Best, V.
Boo,
Hang in there. As V mentioned raw and sadness is understandable after any traumatic event, really nurture (i.e. stay with the lovely feeling you mention and garner more) those areas. You’ve done the best thing for yourself in moving out and thinking ahead (therapy sessions for example) while taking good care of yourself in the meanwhile.
Take each day and moment at a time.
Warm hugs.
@All, thanks for the well wishes with my upcoming eye surgery. 🙂 Tonight I got the shocking news that my friend’s ex-EUM committed suicide. He had a lot of mental illness. She’d been NC with him for over a year – they divorced 3 years ago but he kept trying to get her back (despite living with a gf). She feels bad but knows she had to do it to protect herself. He would have drained the life force right out of her again- as he already did during their marriage. I hope he’s at peace now.
I’m sorry Diane. That is very sad news.
I ruined my friendships with my best friend (and a couple of others) by being a BIG TIME drainer. I was awful. It took her slamming the proverbial door in my face and cutting me out of her life to realize my issue with boundaries. Thanks for the post, Natalie.
The problem with allowing drainers – is that they in turn drain you – so that you become one also and have to go and drain other people in order to feel better about yourself. And then they come back for more! And then you drain more and a domino effect happens – with people syphoning off your good fuel repeatedly and you needing to syphon fuel yourself.
Its not that their need may not be legitimate – it is – its just that they need to develop more places to get it from – more support in a caring manner on those that support them but they won’t unless you set boundaries that work for you.
Boundaries are the only way – especially and essentially with people who you love and care for.
You wouldn’t allow someone to take all your heating fuel- wood, solar, electricity, gas or oil etc… through a cold winter – repeatedly – no matter how much you loved them – eventually you would have non left for them to take anyway, as well as non for yourself. So why allow it?
You can let them have it safely during a summer perhaps or when less worrying weather is more guaranteed – only this is rare and could always change – so best to proceed with caution about something that IS in fact very valuable to you and your wellbeing.
Oona, very true, I certainly see a cycle, that the drainers in my family have been drained out by their parents, and they seem to be in a persistent winter, with no time to restock fuel. I’m not asked for anything or even guilt-tripped, but still end up burned out by expectations and the unhealthiness of the relationship if I don’t draw a line. I think part of the exhaustion is in enabling it, meaning that contact is superficial and false. One of the most caring but difficult things you can do is find ways to tell the truth, and give an idea of what needs to be worked on, instead of play along. My kindness towards others is much clearer and more natural since I stopped being weighed down by obligation and stopped should-ing myself so much.
This one is the major thing I have with a parent-
“They tend not to take a real interest in you because everything is prelude to talking about them. This isn’t just when they have drama– this is whether it’s a good or bad day. They do the whole asking how you’re doing in the first or last thirty second to a minute of the call for instance and before you’ve really had a chance to say anything, they’ve swung back to what they really want to talk about.”
I realised this only recently, that it’s the key to what’s screwed up. It’s one of those epiphany moments because this is under a mask of constant self-sacrifice, self-deprecation and duty towards others, in other words the opposite appearance to someone ‘me me me’ and always speaking against selfish types. He doesn’t really know what’s going on in my life, never asks for details of the big events or discusses them. He instead turns it on himself and seeks validation from me, or maybe just thinks that’s how conversations work. It drives me nuts when I hear him cheerfully telling others about my life as though he has any handle on it or part in it. That leads me to-
“You likely feel resentful about the imbalance or the drain on your time, energy and emotions. Hell, you probably feel exhausted just thinking about them. Hell, when you see their name ringing on your phone or in your texts list or they’re making a beeline for you, you might even feel a bit queasy or just straight-up overwhelmed.”
Yep! A very strong reaction to calls etc., overwhelmed when he’s around me at family gatherings, and thinking about it makes me queasy.
“They’re not keen on taking responsibility so even if they keep telling variations of the same story, just with different people, it’s everyone else who’s the problem. They also see it as your responsibility to make them feel better which is why they feel indignant if you won’t drop everything.”
Yes! Would never ask me to drop everything, too passive and self-effacing, but in telling stories about issues with people, has complete inability to consider his side of it and massively simplifies it with no self-awareness. Had to get all that off my chest!
Thanks again Gina and V,
I think I made a spelling error in my last post though! I wrote “lovely” but I meant to write “lonely”
I feel lonely.
I’ve obviously got some issues I need to work through if something awful happened on Wednesday and I’m still reeling 4 days later.
I constantly feel like crying and now seem to have gotten Ill!
I’m just so tired of looking after myself! If I’m honest (and I’ve said on posts on other articles) looking out for our own best interests, standing up to people, maintaining our boundaries and dealing with drainers is exhausting!
I’m finding myself devoid of all energy right now and feeling very sorry for myself indeed.
I don’t ask for help very well but just asked my mum to stay with me an extra night in hew place to help get me sorted and just take the pressure of a bit.
I’m overwhelmed but taking it a day at a time.
Thank God for BR and all you guys
Bx
Boo,
I can sense your deep sadness 🙁
Lovely or lonely stay with how it is with you exhausting the process is of coming to terms with what has happened, and where to from here. Ask your mum to stay a bit longer with you as I am sure she totally understands what has happened.
Mmmm the brother nearing half a century, he’s got a heck of a lot of getting conscious and growing up to do to say the least.
Up until a few years ago I had many drainers in my life. They would call and talk about themselves and then “have to run”. It was all so one sided. When I had something going on they weren’t available. It was my mom all over again. It was my job to call her and she would talk about herself, then ask about a sibling, and not once ask a thing about me. She did not know my daughter’s name.
No more. Unless someone is going through something and needs that extra ear, I’m not having it.
When my neighbor last tried to come over and dump his anger on me I just checked out and didn’t give him anything – I mean nothing. He suddenly stopped talking, looked a little dumbfounded and said he ‘guessed he just needed to get it off his chest’ and walked away. He’s never done it since. He didn’t get what he was looking for.
I do have a relationship that a value a lot where the person used to do this. I took the risk and shared how much it hurt me and how devalued I felt when she did it. To her credit, she is now much more considerate in our conversations and in our relationship in general.
I realize my new friend is possibly doing this to me. I have provided answer after answer and it does not sink in. I wanted to talk one night and was met with a firm no, and it only then occurred to me, “why am I trying so hard to keep this person up and afloat day in and day out?” I realized that when I am feeling blue, I get some attention, but it always turns back to the other person. Also, I have to hear the same problems, and when I offer solutions, I am met with the same problems. I established a NC for the past 3 days and it worked like a charm. I noticed my headaches have disappeared, and I was even singing to myself in the car the other day on the return work commute, smiling and singing for no apparent reason – oh yes, the reason is I was not all worn down and out from talking to my “friend” again who is a bottomless pit of negativity. Thanks for this website, you cannot know how you are helping me to cope and improve the quality of my own life. Well done.
@finallygetIt. Oh Yes – RELIEF ! V.
O-M-G, that *was* SOOO me! I used to be a big-time drainer magnet until I (recently) learned to befriend and listen to my own intuition, so now whenever I get that creepy, sicked-out feeling I run for the hills since that’s my “spidey senses” telling me there is a toxic person after my vital energy. One silver lining to being in a position of having to totally rebuild my life after being ransacked by a very destructive marriage is being in a position to practically start from scratch in selecting friends and (re)building relationships based on who I am now, i.e., with boundaries 🙂
Thank you so much for the clear instructions of how to extricate oneself from these types, as I still have difficulty with what I refer to as “pathological talkers” (the ones that seem to be trying to monopolize all the available airspace with their nonstop blather since all they are interested in is a captive audience) because I feel rude cutting them off and trying to excuse myself and make an exit after giving up on them ever pausing for breath…but wait! Those types have absolutely no compunction about cutting me off and talking over me whenever I dare try to get a word in edgewise, so why should I feel guilty? Now I know: I am under NO obligation to make myself available for drainers!