There are several issues that are recurrent themes in struggling or dubious relationships. Seeking validation is one of them. Women who love assclowns and emotionally unavailable men spend an incredible amount of time engaged in activities that are supposed to lead getting validation.
While assclowns are thinking, ‘I’m not that bad‘, the women who love them think variations of ‘Tell me I’m a good person of value and that I’m the exception‘.
Assclowns get validation all the time that they’re not as bad as they really are. The validation comes when they continue to get women and when each of those women accepts (and normalises) their bad behaviour. When one doesn’t but another one does, they can let their delusion continue.
We all have our values (even if we don’t use them). They’re tied to our beliefs, determining what feels right and wrong, good and bad, etc.
This cuts both ways. You might spend a disproportionate amount of energy trying to get others to confirm you are a person of value, loveable, a great girlfriend, the best girlfriend, the ‘one’, etc. At the same time, you might spend an equally disproportionate amount of time confirming negative beliefs. In turn, you create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The issue of seeking validation represents a huge problem with assclowns. Why? You’re involved in a consistent conflict of interest that confirms the negative beliefs that drove your attraction to them.
We get involved with people who reflect what we believe about love, relationships, and ourselves. With negative beliefs, we gravitate to people who give us the opportunity to believe even though, conversely, we’ll also try to get them to validate the opposite about us.
Imagine someone believes that relationships don’t last, that men disappear and cheat, and that there’s something unlovable about them. This person will get involved with someone who offers the least likely prospect for commitment. They’ll also gravitate to someone who likely blows hot and cold, disappears or outright abandons her, has a tendency to cheat.
Her beliefs mean she is afraid of actually going out there and committing herself. She fears and believes that the relationship won’t last. That fear of abandonment makes her ready to be hurt. Cheating will mean she’s distrustful and doesn’t believe her partner can be faithful. She’ll fear she’s a hop, skip, and a jump away from being replaced. In feeling unlovable, it’s near inconceivable that someone could actually love her. Even if she met someone who did, she wouldn’t believe them.
She’ll try to get him to commit and stop disappearing. She’ll stay even when he screws around or makes it clear he’s pursuing other interests. By trying to be the exception to his rule of behaviour, she wants him to prove she’s ‘good enough’, ‘valid’, and ‘lovable’.
Instead, by the assclown continuing his behaviour, she instead learns that relationships don’t last, that men disappear and cheat, and that there’s something unlovable about her. And all because he wouldn’t make her the exception, leaving her feeling emotionally depleted. She’ll think that if she wasn’t flawed and a lovable person, she would have been able to hold on to a dipstick of an assclown like him. She believes good, lovable people get the guy to make them the exception. His disrespecting her perpetuates every negative thing she already believes about herself.
What I’ve described is the self-fulfilling prophecy of seeking validation from people who are fundamentally incompatible with the concept of a healthy relationship.
Your thoughts?
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Ohhhhh DEAR! i cannot wait for this book
Gosh this is me. It’s like you’ve poked my soul!
Hey Natalie,
Great Post as usual!! I think that a key point that could be added to this article is emotional intelligence. Any time we become emotionally dependent on anyone, our self-esteem is dependent on their actions. When you have this tendency, you attract and accept people who reflect your level of self esteem. Therefore, we must seek to become emotionally independent before becoming responsible interdependent within our relationships.
.-= Brent Blair´s last blog ..Hello world! =-.
You are so right Brent, our relationships do reflect our own self esteem. Its so important to have your own life and if it does happen to include another the better but it shouldn’t be a requirement to have a happy life. Its too much to ask anyone to be your sole source of happiness, you have to find it in yourself.
Very interesting and so true. My ex once said to me “I can’t be that bad, they all keep coming back/staying in touch” about various exes, who slept with, indulged him, wanted to be his friend.
And for a long time I thought “what is wrong with me, he was contacting his ex, why wouldn’t he want to be with me”.
Now of course I realise differently. I could never get my validation through him, despite how much I tried. It had to come from me.
I am actually in the same situation. I understand how you’re feeling. At the end you realise, that you’re loosing on your self-trust big time.
I agree with you, Gemma. Today’s article feels like a homerun kick inside=D.
Our self-attitude and ‘the plan’ to move in our relations reality, were shapped trough long time, our lifetime, mostly in our young age. Trying, learning, practicing what I’ve learned and failing lot’s of times at first, is sometimes making me feel powerless. …as the changes cannot appear over one or two attempts, most likely they are about to repeat with the next man, with the other important relationships… But if we grow in it, not only our logic registers ‘THIS is just not right’, our guts are saying the same. And I guess the most important is to know, that we have the choice to create different experiences, choose different relationships, and mostly, that we can and should choose to value us by the values that gives us personal support. To become almost completely emotionally self-sufficient…? How great is that!!.=)..I guess all the pleading for validation falls off, it’s unimportant balast.
Natalie, really thank you for your words. =)
Gemma – ditto!
My own repeated pattern in the past was validation.
There is a cure… become aware of your sub-conscious beliefs. Then decide if you want to keep them. A pointer is usually your emotions. Then once you have cleared blockages, you can work on making your sub-conscious and conscious beliefs match –> the life you want!!
We really are transformed by the daily renewal of our minds. Are you ready to start putting the good stuff in?
.-= Cathy J´s last blog ..Cost of Dating: Part 4 Cost in Time and Energy to Beyond Positive Thinking =-.
I can relate to this article sooooo much! I have spent 2 years with an ass clown constantly looking for validation which I never ever received. Not too long ago he was attending a school reunion an it made me feel very insecure (as I never ever trusted him the minuted he walked out of the door). I asked him afterwards if there had been any ‘sparks’ with any of these school chums and whether he had agreed to see any of them. What I wanted him to say was that he wouldn’t even think of it because he had me but what he actually said was “No way – they were all married or fat”. This left me feeling even more frustrated – already thinking of the next question I could ask him that would give me that validation I so needed. I was almost obsessed with getting him to say that one thing that made me feel special and different.
It never came and it never would have done! I believe I am off that merry-go-round now. (Thank goodness!)
Love how Baggage Reclaim just gets to the heart of the matter; pulls off the scabs and lets the healing begin. I am making better choices due to this website and I’m so grateful. Months ago I was seeking validation via a guy with a lot of money. I thought if I could “get” him, I’d know I had worth. Yeah, my self esteem was abysmal. I’ve since told him where to get off, as he wasn’t even divorced and seeing other people. I’m now focused on own life. I recently landed a great job and bought a new camera, for taking pictures of nature; something I’ve wanted to do for a long time. I’m developing a happy life and finding it in myself. Believe me, if I can make this transition, anybody can!
I just had a flash: A**clowns treat you like a feral cat. They put you out in the morning, but they want you to come back at night.
Actually… I’ve known them to treat feral cats *better* than they treat women… {grins}
Outstanding, in terms of ANY type of relationship. If you try to squeeze juice from a turnip-friendship, then you are just as likely to do so in a personal relationship…or a work relationship…etc.
It’s about attitude, as they all say. About self-respect. AND, especially, about drawing boundaries.
With those who are not emotionally healthy, and/or who do not want relationships, even when you draw the line, they still don’t get it, though, most of the time. This is why, especially with personal relationships, it’s best to just walk. You shouldn’t EVER have to convince someone to treat you with respect. And, for the people who do, the “person convinced” will eventually revert to their old ways. 9 times out of 10. The only time(s) they don’t revert is when they have a life-altering experience, as in when the AC has a daughter (or daughters!! HAH HAH!) of his own, and he sees, over time (HAH HAH HAH!!!), what his OWN daughter(s) will have to go through.
And, believe me, if it’s bad now for women, just wait and see how bad things will be for the daughters of those ACs!
What goes around comes around.
🙂
WELL SAID. I AM THINKING, THE AC’S NEW VICTIM IS MOST LIKELY A DOORMAT AND AS LONG AS ITS ON HIS TERMS EVERYTHING WILL BE WORDERFUL. I WOULD LIKE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW THAT WILL TURN OUT FOR THE GIRL IN THE LONG TERM.
My AC didn’t love his daughters any more than he did any of the other women in his life. It was ALWAYS all about him.
that is just sad and I am glad to know this. I always thought that when AC’s had kids , specially daughters, it will touch his ” heart nerve” and they will become all lovey dovey to their kids and their women. I guess I am wrong But i am kind of glad you mentioned this because last AC was craving to have kids. I think it was more about control than anything else.
As a matter of fact, I dont think my dad loved me anymore than himself. He was never affectionate, I think it may have been once or twice that he was affectionate when I was growing up.
@Used and Kathy –
I have heard my Ex AC call his 7 yr old son “Emotional, just like his mother”
Oh really? I thought – well obviously the poor kid would be with a narcissistic father who intentionally withholds his affection, “love”, and attention in order to control him.
I have seen photos of this child smiling – a very forged odd looking smile… a boy living a life of emotional abuse and neglect.
AC’s are not capable of loving – anyone. His son is an obligation, a responsibility – just like his job, his car payments, his mortgage.
So incredibly sad.
Wow. You said the one key line. AC’s are uncapable of loving…anyone. What is funny is I believe this is the trait in all assclowns. My AC before I left him said he couldn’t “love” someone until he bought the truck, the house, and the boat. Then he’d love someone. He has not been in love since the girl in college broke his heart….(enter the world’s smallest violin playing as the story actually goes he left her to go into the army to pursue what HE wanted to do)
Now, love is just another thing to acquire…but what it really means is he can’t give “feel” for anyone but himself.
I truly believe this is a character trait that does not change.
WALK AWAY. Even if you do convince him you are the one, the reasoning will be, “she stuck by me and she’s the best I can find, so sure”
Is that what you would want your prince charming to say?
-Myrtle
Recovering assclown addict since 12/29/09
ALMOST FIVE MONTHS SOBER!
Myrtle–
Exactly: even if they do get convinced that you are the one, it’s really due to TIMING–you had been the one to stick by him until he was ready, and, when he was ready, instead of dumping you to find the one (or another one), he just figures, “oh, well, things are working out here…why look more?” BUT he really never kept his options open b/c you were already in the picture–how could other women look at him?
You know Nat you just made me remember – in my last correspondenec with the ExEUM I wrote about his EUMness and that he had nothing to offer.He had to leave her before she left him so he didn’t get hurt and now I was gone and that he had fulfilled his self fullfilling prophecy – she will leave me in the end and I did. Congrats!
I never really looked at it from the other perspective – I was self fullfilling too – I was not in a good place for a relationship in the first place and definitely set myself up to fail with my choice. My old belief system had me square pegged into a round hole stuck.
Thank you for being such a big part of my recovery! The more I learn about me – the more I love me. As one of my friends once said – who couldn’t just love you. At that time – it was me.
JJ2 – only if we let them.
Ladies – men can only treat us as we let them. Even in our families, if we don’t like the way we are treated – we can choose, then act on – not accepting it.
It is hard and can take a long time and yet so rewarding.
Right now I have two people very close to me who are living defacto and both of their men are not working, nor are they looking. They just expect the women to support them ….. Why do we women put up with it?
Surely life is about more than that! When you have had enough you will not only know what to do but are ready to act on it – when you do there will be others around to help.
May you be blessed today and know you are loved.
.-= Cathy J´s last blog ..Cost of Dating: Part 4 Cost in Time and Energy to Beyond Positive Thinking =-.
This is such a cool place and always inspiring me!
Realizing how much my seeking for validation contaminated all aspects of my life like fungal spores is quite mind-boggling. Thanks to my father I bought deep into the idea that I’m unlovable and worthless. Obviously for educational reasons he kept comparing me with my then best schoolfriend. “She can X why can’t you X?” Prefering her so openly was a tremendous hurt through all my childhood and started my pattern that other women are always, always better than me in all aspects. It was reflected in all my relationships and this seemed to confirm that my father was right about me in the first place which took its toll on my self-esteem. What my father did was a great betrayal of our father-daughter-relationship and I do my best to stop this toxic dynamic.
Good to know where it all started but hard to convince myself of some opposite ideas in view of all the “evidence” which is nothing else but self-fulfilling prophecy.
It is very touching for me to connect with other women sharing our experiences, being heard and understood and getting support from a non-competitive place and eventually seeing through the mist. Thanks to all of you.
The lesson from Natalie’s post here is:
Relationships shouldn’t be about “validation.” If you find that you need “validation” in the relationship, then it’s time to run the other way, and suffer the short term pain for the long term gain. I’m hating the short term pain, but reading Natalie’s blog helps.
Natalie, if I did not know better I would swear you have been listening in on my conversations. This article had me all over it….I had to gasp several times especially when you said this:
“Please stop putting me on a pedestal and creating illusions because I am not the man you think I am and I am not the man who you so clearly need me to be and I cannot meet your needs and have no desire to.”’
This post describes my past situation to a tee, I did not realize how much I wanted this guy to be someone he simply could not be. He even warned me early…I mean within a month of us talking he said “I cannot give you what you want right now”. At the time that he said it I was confused, because I did not realize I wanted or was expecting anything from him. Unfortunately, I did not heed the warning, and hee kind of stuck around.
O, how I wish I would have trusted my intuition. Anyway, I am still mourning the death of the person I thought he was. I learned that when a man shows you who he is accept it.
Recovering Zombie
If you are thinking, “Why does he want to be with her and not me” you can console yourself by saying to yourself, “Well, she will wise up and leave him, too, eventually, and if she doesn’t she is niaive.” (I wanted to say “stupid” but we have all been there, too and we aren’t stupid.)
It’s what I am telling myself.
My recent AC was in his 60’s and I figured guys that old would have learned by now. THEY DON’T!
Please could we have a post on how to tinker with and change those undermining fundamental beliefs that are causing all the problems?
Thanks!
Fiona
Spot on. Thanks. 🙂
I have never posted on this site before. I read it to help me leave a relationship with a damaged man-boy. He was not a bad person. He really wasn’t a bad person. There was no cheating. If there was then he is a master because we live around the corner from each other. Anyway, I have no evidence what so ever to support it so I won’t even go there. He just hide in work, school, taking on multiple responsibilities like buying fixer uppers homes he could rent out, adopting a dog he does not even have time for etc. He broke up with me right before Thanksgiving and while I was heart broken and devastated I did not fight him I just told him to do what he felt he had to. Of course I got all the classic lines. How overwhelmed he is with everything he has on his plate..blah, blah blah.. I know now he has all these things in his life for a reason. To keep any type of real relationship with another human being from really ever developing. We had a good relationship for about 6 months. I was never needy or nagging. If he did something I did not like I would address it and drop it, not to make huge drama. He always made plans during the week or weekend with me but would never commit to a time and leave me waiting all day for him to contact me and let me know “the plan”. Sometimes he would not call when he said he would but mostly he would call but wait till the eleventh hour when it was borderline inconsiderate. He was good at that. Anyway, I did my own thing while we were broken up. I did not contact him or go anywhere near him. I stayed away and did my best to take care my business and myself even though I was sad and heartbroken. Anyway, two months later he came back and contacted me by text (he used texting a lot..with everyone). I think he likes the impersonal nature of it and feels safe behind them. He only would ever tell me how he felt about me through text but could never tell me to my face. He could only show me affection to my face but never verbalize. He initiated contacts and dates at least 70%of the time. I wanted sex more than he did and sometimes just wanted to cuddle so I never felt I was being used for sex. Anyway, back to my story. He came back in January and asked me if I would be willing to try again with him. He made it very clear, however, that he was still very busy which made me believe he was letting me know I should set the bar low for him. I was very cautious. Anyway, I agreed to get together for a date and we set one. Unfortunately we did end up getting intimate that night however I pushed for it. I wish I had not have done that but I knew that I should not make a big thing about it. Which I didn’t. I kept going about my business and if we had just had a casual date. He called a few times. Was still being flakey which made me even more cautious. I decided that the next time he called I was going to bring it up about his being inconsistent about calling. He had text me once even stating that things were going to free up after he moved (he was moving into a new home that week) and I had not even contacted him or asked to see him more so I have no idea why he would tell me that. But three days after he moved I heard nothing. However, I had not initiated a single contact since he came back and felt I needed to at least initiate one before I could say much to him about calling. Anyhow, I called left a message and got a text the next day apologizing for missing my call and that he was cleaning one of his rental properties which tenants were about to move into and now was in class (which he was ) and could not call and ranted on about being a victim of his busy life like he always does because he knows that I always will sympathize with that. This time I was not up for it. I said enough and never responded. He called from his friend’s phone four days later (thinking I would not recognize it). Then I noticed his car popping up on my street and him going to a bar at the end of my street more often. He chooses to drive past my house to get there (which is totally unnecessary and actually out of the way). Anyway, I know it is a long story to lead up to the question I have but I thought that some background would be good. I am trying to move on with my life and he keeps popping up by driving by my house or going to places close to my house and it still hurts. Every time I see his car at the end of my street or him drive by, I feel kind of sick. I obviously cannot call him up and ask him to stop. It is frustrating because it’s like he is not willing to make any real effort to apologize or fix the situation but he continues to try and make his presence known. He was never good about handling conflict so I am not all that surprised about his inaction. But I just don’t get it. If you don’t want to be here dude then go for Christ’s sake! Does anyone have any suggestions of how I can handle this without re-engaging with him. It has been three months since I cut him off and I am healing and really have grown a lot. But he keeps doing this crap. Thanks in advance for any advice and/or encouragement!
Hi Stephanie,
So much in your story related to my “man-boy” 9 month experience. As I’ve read over this incredible and enlightening website and listened to all the stories, the common traits and behaviors in these AC’s are shocking…I had no idea there were so many of us great gals hurting but healing and growing at the same time. I’ve been dealing w/the pain of ending the illusion and licking my wounds around my diminished self esteem for having such a frustrating and confusing relationship that started out and lasted good for nine months and then he had the big narcissist injury and its been downhill ever since…and I’m on day 6 NC…and feeling stronger and stronger. He truly is a dark force that I will love from a distance…a safe distance…and those were the last words I told him. Hang in there and keep coming here.
Wow, Stephanie, same thing with my A/C. Although he never complained about being “overwhelmed.” He “kept busy” in order to keep from FEELING anything. “Idle mind is the devil’s workshop” was his mantra. Apparently, sitting and having “quiet time” with me was “an invitation for the devil.” He invited me to hang out at his house, which I did, for three months, and then he proceeded to treat me like a roommate.
Ps I wanted add that we were “back together/trying again” for about four weeks before I cut him off.
Thanks Mary Beth. It is very hard. I take solice in the fact that I ended the relationship on my terms and said no to his immature behavior and took the power back. He is truly a wounded child, troubled, damaged, broken and conflicted. I love him but loving him does not mean being with him is right for me. He has so much work to do and I am not sure he will ever get there based on the way he is acting by driving by my house etc. In past relationships with other men I would have saw that as a grand gesture to be with me and called him, filling in the gaps..no more. I did a lot different with him, sadly his issues were too big and it did not matter how well I handled myself. He is a weak and broken boy. I don’t really feel bad about cutting him off without warning. i care about him, but he has to do some self-reflection. Which by the way, I am not sure he can do. He isolates and whenever his fragile ego is bruised he hides in work or just stays home and watches TV and drinks. Its a sad lonely exsistance. he lost such a good thing with me and that really sucks for him. I guess there will be someone else out there who is lucky enough to received the love I have to give. Sadly my ex pushed me away. He wants love but pushes away and sabotages. He left me in a great deal of pain. However, I really feel now that he may have been the best thing to ever happen to me because he forced me to face some of the remaining self-esteem issues I still had lingering and he has showed me about commitment phobia..so now I know exactly what the red flags are and never have to deal with it again because I am going to get real about the men I date. He really woke me up. One day I will probably extremely grateful because he has shown me what an unhealthy relationship looks like so now I am better equipted to go create a healthy one with healthy man who is capable of growing.
It’s the exact same thing with men. I’m dating a guy right now who I ADORE. Not seeing anyone else, thinking of seeing anyone else, nor do I want to see anyone else but him. He has questioned everything from why my bed is ruffled (there must’ve been another man in it); to why there were 2 dirty glasses in my sink (was I drinking w/someone else); to why the level on my vodka bottle is where it is (who else was drinking) to why I’m not answering my ringing cell phone (could it be another man calling); to why I wouldn’t let him in my house when he showed up early (I wasn’t quite ready and wanted to look perfect for him) but in his eyes (I was cleaning up the mess from the guy that was there before him); to why I went up to my room so many times (because he showed up early and I didnt have a chance to clean my room as well as finish putting on my makeup so I ran upstairs a few times to do this) – to him, I was cleaning up after last night’s “romp”. This is unbearable and is killing me as well as our relationship. The list here is also just the tip of the iceberg. There’s more. It’s very, very hard and not that this behavior will necessarily “cause” me to cheat but it will cause me to leave him which I think is what he fears the most (abandonment). He’s so scared of being abandoned that he is causing it. Self-fulfilling prophecy perfection I’d say.